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Thread: Open Source Pre-Rotator Project Description

  1. #1
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Open Source Pre-Rotator Project Description

    How would you, like a State-of-the-art lightweight electric PRE-ROTATOR lithium ion battery powered AT COST?

    That is right what could be a major new Member Benefit – A Lightweight state-of-the-art pre-rotator for all of our members at COST or you download the planes, schematics, parts lists, bracket drawings, etc. everything you need to build it yourself or any part of it you choose.

    A most informative thread http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42321 on RWF proved that high rotor blade pre-rotation speeds do not provide the best climb over a 50’ obstacle.

    Many chapters’ members are starting to create their own. See another RWF thread: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42321

    Russ Owens saw the post and requested the board should make this Open Source Project happen.

    The BOD rushed it through and we are announcing it now.

    Then we need 6 groups of volunteers!!

    1) Research Volunteers! They search for schematic and send them to the tech's in 2 below to evaluate and then source parts needed once a part list is created.

    2) Electronic tech's who can read a schematic. The select the circuit and create the prototypes.

    3) Programmers who write the code.

    4) Machinist to create all the different plans for and the actual attaching brackets we will need for each type of rotor-head. (Auto Cad type programmers) too

    5) Flight test-pilots and machines.

    6) Technical Writers To write future announcements, assembly instructions, and operating instructions.

    Each Group has a different Private Forum section on that projects name that only show up to them.
    The programmer post in there own threads and work together as a group much more than with the other groups. But they can all ask question in any group.

    We will try a group buying program in conjunction with all Open Source Projects. Where we save you even more money buy purchasing materials and parts in volumes that a signal person never could passing the discounts on to our members plus the cost of labor paid to our now paid volunteers. Or you may buy them on there on at 1 and 2 piece prices = 50% or higher than PRA buying them in quantity?

    Non-Members may buy it at retail price without PRA members discounts if they wish and the BOD may vote to keep these funds for the next Open Source Project?

    Only our volunteers working on the project can post or read these private work forums until it is finished. Then the Open Source Project will be moved to Blog where members now can ask questions and download attachments or buy parts, made components, and or a complete pre-rotator as you wish.

    If you have any suggestions or questions this is where members meet to help this the project or request to be a member of the team!
    Last edited by JOHN ROUNTREE 41449; 01-01-2015 at 01:10 PM.

  2. #2
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Pre-rotator: Volunteer Job Descriptions

    How would you, like a State-of-the-art lightweight electric PRE-ROTATOR lithium ion battery powered AT COST?

    We are looking for a few good women and men to make this happen for all of us as we all need lightweight pre-rotator.
    The following are the job descriptions for those who would like to make the world a better place for those with our same passion.

    Internet Researchers Volunteers:
    1. 1st we need to select the perfect ‘motor’ by sending the torque for the heaviest blade members use to all the motor manufactures and let them tell us why their motor is superior. We narrow the list and send it back to the entire finalist companies and ask them to tell us why their motor is better than the others we selected.

    2. Now that we know the power requirements for the motor selected we need you to search the internet for ‘power supply’ schematic and post them to the Electronic Technicians forum; they will analyze them for purpose, longevity, and cost and select the final schematic to create a parts list to prototype.

    3. Once the parts list is created; researcher will search for the cheapest source for the parts needed buying is quantity to pass on the discounts to our members.

    4. Next research price and availability of digital display rotor tacks and investigating making PRA’s own as part of this project using the same (MPU) ‘Micro Processor Unit’.

    5. Finish these task and post a request on the ‘Machines Forum’ requesting the type of material required for the various rotor head and attaching baskets then start searching for price and availability for the metals we the ‘Machines’ need.

    6. Once the prototype is finished Researcher may be 1st in line to become commission marketers of the finished product.


    Electronic Technicians Volunteers:
    1. Analyze schematic for applicability of purpose and longevity of components.

    2. Create parts lists and post them on the ‘Internet Researchers’ forum so they can research the cost for that schematic.

    3. Once the power supply schematic is selected for durability and cost we need a ‘Rotor RPM Gauge’ that we will probably create ourselves using the same MPU so we are only looking for a small display.

    4. Now that the electronic parts needed are found Technicians will start building the prototypes for flight testing.

    5. Once the project is finished Electronic Technician may choose to be paid builders of the finished components for those members that do not wish to build them on their own.

    Programmers Volunteers:
    1. We will be using AVR’s because it of its free tool chain (software tools), selection of chips, features, power, and low cost. It’s easy if you have used other MPU we can teach you quickly.

    2. Programmer may choose either C or Basic.

    3. The program flow-chart will be revealed in the Programmer private Forum discussed until made totally automatic once you throw the switch and it turns itself off only after it hits 250 RRPM driving the blades during the 1st part of the take-off roll helping assuring your blades CANNOT FALP during this critical stage.

    4. Rotor RPM Gauge we will select the Hall Effect sensors, magnets, display gauge working with the programmers as we need this information for the project we might as well give them a gauge for the human to read?

    5. Programmer will be offered to earn money after the project is finish by writing patches for updates.

    Machinist Volunteers (Auto Cad type programmers) too:
    1. Machinist will design the brackets for many different types of rotor heads.

    2. They will create plans with CNC code for download to members and they will most likely become paid machinist making brackets for members who wish to buy them finished forum us and to design odd one off brackets.

    Flight test-pilots:
    1. They will test the prototype on a members machine that is willing to pay for a complete unit including free installing and testing.

    2. Next we ask for another member with a different model who wished to purchase one and repeat until all major manufactures brackets are designed and tested.

    3. Test Pilots will be paid in fun for flying different models… sorry best we could do as no need after the project is finished.

    Technical Writers:
    1. Technical writers have one of the hardest jobs there is IMHO!

    2. They have to write assembly instructions for the electronic kits.

    3. Installation instructions for the brackets.

    4. Installation instructions for the Rotor RPM gauge, magnets, and sensors.

    5. And if that not hard enough they have to write so everyone can understand it and complete the project with the least question possible. I do not know how they do it!!


    ----End---
    Similar examples photos of what others are creating:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bendix.jpg   FGDDFFGF1.JPG   FGDDFFGF2.jpg   IMG_3026.jpg   IMG_3027.jpg  

    Last edited by JOHN ROUNTREE 41449; 01-01-2015 at 01:11 PM.

  3. #3
    John, I really like the idea if the top one. I think this might work if the motor is large enough. But, from past experience, I'm thinking 2000 watt motor would be required for 30 ft blades.

  4. #4
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRENT DRAKE 38604 View Post
    John, I really like the idea if the top one. I think this might work if the motor is large enough. But, from past experience, I'm thinking 2000 watt motor would be required for 30 ft blades.
    Good one; your right! It's going to take power! Once we know how to phrase the question to the electric motor manufactures I believe they will define the power required for us?
    We can only ask and let reality dictate how large of blades we spin and how much battery we will need.

    The good news is we do not run them for long but the batteries have to have the capacity to be recharged quickly.
    One solution could be combination battery and super capacitors pack with instant recharge, these will be more defined by cost than performance I suspect?

  5. #5
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Here is a link to our motor, controller, and gear association made up of many companies that our researcher will query for motors and gears.

    http://www.globalspec.com/

    I've joined them and get emails now it an interesting source!
    Last edited by JOHN ROUNTREE 41449; 01-01-2015 at 11:39 PM.

  6. #6
    I'm thinking the hard part would be how to place the motor low for CG. Then a shaft up to top with a bendix. What concerns me is I don't believe in belts or chains. Way to much to go wrong.

  7. #7
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRENT DRAKE 38604 View Post
    I'm thinking the hard part would be how to place the motor low for CG. Then a shaft up to top with a bendix. What concerns me is I don't believe in belts or chains. Way to much to go wrong.
    Yaw Mon, Hi Brent!

    I like this thinking look at the picture above with the shaft.
    The heavy blades for sure.

    With CLT rides mount most of the weight at the CG!!
    If High or low thrust lines could we not help correct it by moving the location of most of the weight of our unit up or down X number of inches to correct it to CLT?

    Sort of like how Stan balances his CG by moving his battery forward or aft on the tail boom?

    The hard part may be finding a place it will fit where we want it for all the different models?
    Last edited by JOHN ROUNTREE 41449; 01-02-2015 at 06:40 PM.

  8. #8
    John, a technical writer either needs to know the topic well or have access to knowledgeable sources. So, while I know next to nothing about this topic but have had considerable experience with technical writing, I would be willing to be involved if needed.

  9. #9
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    This is so great we will have many different instal lions and assembly instructions we need many as we cannot expect volunteers to be able to work full time!!

    But like Piranha many little bites all working independently; but, together to eat a huge meal making it a short task. It works with business too.

    I'll add you to the project private forum groups so you can all work together, in your own groups, and independently.

    Dean thank you and please go to Tech writers and introduce yourself!!
    Last edited by JOHN ROUNTREE 41449; 01-03-2015 at 10:36 PM.
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  10. #10
    Moderator John,
    Is this thread concerned solely with electrically powered per-rotators for light gyroplanes? Seems to me that to rotate a 27-30 ' heavy rotor to appreciable RPM (250+) in a reasonable time one would need at least 35 - 45 ft. lbs. Tough to do with electrics at decent weight.

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